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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:03 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTmMHuX_i8k&t=1s

I enjoyed the fight in this 109K4-RIV.
The music was excellent. Exiting out
of the plane to external view is great.
But zoom in a bit more: key = ]

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:43 pm 
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-sakai wrote:
Actually, Pak...the first hit took my rudder. Hits #2 and #3 hit engine and a fuel tank.

If the hits were indeed with the Cannon, yeah...i probably should have exploded. The fact that I did not DOES NOT prove I use any sort of cheat. Moreover, I find the accusation preposterous. Slightly better aiming of those bullets will come through the canopy. It would have been a spectacular explosion. Alas...


Even better that you were able to fly that well with no rudder!. Didnt see the engine get oiled just the fuel hit.hard to see in that video.. Regardless, it implies that somehow you have altered the FM to absorb hits when you should explode... which is as you say, preposterous.. cant imagine how freaked out he would be if he was shooting at ya with 6 or 8 303's..

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:33 am 
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Might be helpful to show how the hitpoint system looks like.

The hitmap is made up of many different parts, each plane now has the hitpoints of each part based on the material, known structural strength and size. The Zeros easily went kaboom in ww2 because the non self-sealing fuel tanks exploded if hit. A Zero wouldn't explode just because you hit it's tail or parts of the fuselage and wings where there is no fuel. In Warbirds a hit to the fuel tank only causes a fuel leak, no explosion. As such the Zeros in Warbirds don't go kaboom when the fuels are hit. The Zeros are however set to ~80% the hitpoints of other fighters, a bit as a compensation and the fact that they had a weaker structure than most planes, and they have less hitpoints for their fuel tanks, so are easy to fuel. Also note that hitpoints in Warbirds were set partly from a real life estimation, and partly for creating good gameplay, i.e. trying to find the line between to fragile vs to tough, for the dogfights to be fun while still historically accurate.

Below is the average amount of hitpoints for each part for the fighters in Warbirds. Do note that this varies for each fighter, but I've summed them all up and calculated the average numbers.


Image


Now let's look at the guns. The most common damage output per bullet is:
.30 cal/7.9 mm: 1 dmg/round
.50 cal/12.7 mm: 2 dmg/round
20 mm cannon: 7-8 dmg/round
30 mm cannon: 36 dmg/round

The damage is transferable, so if you hit the elevator of the average fighter with a 30 mm shell (36 dmg), the vator is destroyed, and the horizontal stabilizer now has 21 hitpoints left. A second 30 mm hit to the vator or h-stab will fully destroy the h-stab, or you can finish it off with a short machine gun burst. A hit anywhere on the right wing will draw from the total hitpoint pool of the right wing, no matter if you hit the root, mid or tip of the wing.

We can see that in order to get a kill, you need to score several focused hits with a 20 mm cannon to fully demolish that vital part of the plane. A single hit would cause quite a hole in real life, but not a complete structural failure. The 30 mm cannon of the Bf 109K-4's will usually need 2 hits into a fresh vital part to make the plane go kaboom. However if you hit 1 bullet in the left wing, 1 bullet in the right wing, 1 bullet in the fuselage etc, the plane will be very fragile to subsequent fire, but these spread out 30 mm hits have not yet caused a major structural failure. The next time you shoot at someone, instead of being outraged and think: "Omg I hit him with two bursts and he is still flying!!"... Try to see where exactly your bullets are hitting and count the damage to that certain part of the plane, not the total bullets that have hit anywhere on the plane. Focus your next burst at the parts that have already been hit.

Now in the video the hits are clearly spread out. As such there was nothing suspect of the Zero surviving those spread out hits. The bullets weakened the parts hit and even caused a fuel leak and destroyed the rudder, but one would need a few bullets extra in the already damaged parts in order to cause a major structural failure.


I hope this clears things up a bit :)
/Robert


Last edited by Robert on Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:56 am 
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Robert - That is a perfect summation of the issue at hand.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain this component of the game.

~~S~~

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:20 pm 
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In the old days if you destroyed a planes rudder any bullets that hit the rudder after would be stopped and do nothing. For years now the damaged is passed through to the elevator until it too is gone. This applies to most aircraft parts in the game. It is better but still far from perfect. All bullets from 303s to 37mm are the size of basketballs. Most hit boxes are bigger than the area they are trying to represent and extend outside the aircraft model. So its much easier to hit targets in our virtual world. The lag and net add issues that make if very hard to hit or when you hit, damage is not recorded. So its a wash I guess.

With the higher fidelity of WB2020 hopefully the ballistic models and hit boxes are sized down to more realistic sizes. Hitting planes would be harder but modern games often offer up compensating lead circles, icons etc. Once you make it past those then your expertise is better and you won't need those crutches and score more points for every take down.

Good simple explanation of hitscan and projectile objects working alone or together. The realistic approach to bullets that combine the two processes seems to be harder on game calculation and is prone to network problems more often.

https://medium.com/@3stan/how-do-bullet ... 53f1e496a8


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:50 am 
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wait...does mirlox use external view???


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:19 am 
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Location: What you think, you become. What you feel, you attract. What you imagine, you create.
What is Jitter?

Before we jump into the definition and root cause of jitter, sometimes referred to as “ping spikes” or “stuttering”, we need to give a short introduction on networking first.

Information is sent from your computer across the internet in “packets” — bundles of information that will be read by the computer or server that receives it. Usually, packets are sent at regular intervals and take a set amount of time to reach their destination. The time that a packet takes to get to its destination is referred to as latency. Jitter is the fluctuation of latency over time — meaning a high standard deviation from your average ping.

I believe this is the cause of many problems for players. IMHO


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:05 pm 
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Some of these problems have to do with what you see and the difference in what really happens... and is sometimes connection related. When I question why someone did or didn't do this or that I try to record the flight with the in game acm. Using the in game acm allows you to replay the event without any of the smoothing software involved. When there is more than one other player in the video and the player in question is the only one warping you will know it is his connection. If you see all other players warping at the same time it is your connection. If you see no one warping then who knows the problem.
Recording what you see, as in using the windows recorder, won't show you this. Food for thought.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:43 pm 
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I watched the first video again. In the HO encounter at 02:20 Mirlox expended 54x 12.7 mm bullets, and 78x 20 mm bullets. This makes for a total damage output of 108 + 624 = 732 damage. The Zeke wing, which was the part being hit, can take 54 damage, so there was more than enough bullets fired to take the wing off. What you should do though, is to click the link below to open the video in Youtube, and click on the "settings" wheel button. Choose "playback speed" and set it to 0.25x. Now you can watch the HO, happening at 02:20 in the video, in slowmotion. Watching the HO at 0.25x speed, I can see that like 95% of the bullets missed, and only a few shells hit the wing as the zeke passed through the bullet stream, causing a fuel leak. It seems that the code worked as it should. Another burst into the same wing would probably have taken it off as I assess 24-40 damage being done to the wing in the video.

The video, starting at 02:15.
https://youtu.be/yTmMHuX_i8k?t=135


Cheers!
/Robert


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:01 pm 
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mirlox wrote:
Here is another video from another fight with zeke (Ringer) in 109E4 (with much less powerful guns). The result is quite different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA8RoYk69LQ


Result looks the same to me...

Engine hit - oil draining

Fuel hit - leaking

Parts hit - probably one more BB will do the trick. No difference.

Or are you insinuating something nefarious?





EDIT - Nice detective work, Robert.

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