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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:02 am 
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Here is from a forum of IL-2. No actual data presented but "Oleg_Maddox" claims he found a scheme from Japan. Unfortunately I cannot check the validity of his claim.

Feathered_IV
"Actually, the A6M did not cut out in neg g. This is a mistaken peice of information that originated with the capture of Koga's Zero in the Aleutian Islands. When the aircraft was shipped back to the US and repaired for comparrison trials, the engineers accidentally installed the carb upside down - causing the engine to cut out in ng manouvers. Early war intelligence reports on the Zero performance mention this aspect of the aircrafts charicteristics. Later, the error was recognised and the record was set straight."

Oleg_Maddox (developer)
"Looking for the construction of carburater attachment that has 5 screw it is impossible to install inverted, so I think the "known thing" is incorrect."

Oleg_Maddox (developer)
"It seems that US trials really was wrong.
I got the scheme from Japane and description of Japanese karburater comparing to SPitfire MKI carburater that told ther that Spit carburater is outdated....
So the Negative G function will be removed from A6M2 in a patch."


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:16 pm 
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Location: What you think, you become. What you feel, you attract. What you imagine, you create.
Oleg who says. Oh like the Lavochkin's that perform as the prototypes which weren't the typical serial produced aircraft. I'm sorry but if I don't see something in print/report then I'll be inclined not to believe. Hearsay is just that.

Quote:
Feathered_IV
"Actually, the A6M did not cut out in neg g. This is a mistaken peice of information that originated with the capture of Koga's Zero in the Aleutian Islands. When the aircraft was shipped back to the US and repaired for comparrison trials, the engineers accidentally installed the carb upside down - causing the engine to cut out in ng manouvers. Early war intelligence reports on the Zero performance mention this aspect of the aircrafts charicteristics. Later, the error was recognised and the record was set straight."


Sorry putting the carburetor on upside down would mean the engine wouldn't run at all. The float would would be in the position that would shut off the fuel into the float bowl or would let fuel in uninterrupted.

Need to see something in print myself. I can only point out this.

Quote:
The second problem was that the float was really an unsuitable device for use in an airplane. These two problems became critical due to the start of the new dive-bomb method used by the Navy, a tactic which was also just being tried by the Army. Inverted flight and some other maneuvers were possible without killing the engine, at least with an inverted flight restriction installed in the float chamber, a remedy that completely failed when the airplane was briskly nosed over into an abrupt dive. When the pilot needs to quickly enter a dive, the fuel and air in the float chamber changed places so rapidly that they mixed together, resulting in emulsion of fuel and air. The fuel charge that entered the cylinders was then too lean to burn, slowing or stopping the engine.[55] More important than the pushover problem was that when dive-bombing at a steep nose-down angle that the float could not maintained the correct fuel level in the fuel bowl due to the fore-and-aft floats that had evolved in the 1920s. The result was that in the steep dive, the mixture soon became over-rich and the exhaust gases were still burning while leaving the engine exhaust system, even to the point that on some occasions, it set fire to the fabric-covered airplane. A makeshift solution that included a check valve set an arbitrary fuel flow limit solved that problem. Although this eliminated the fire, the valve did not supply the engine with a correctly metered fuel supply.[56]


http://www.enginehistory.org/Accessorie ... Hx02.shtml

A float type carburetor will first flood then give variable fuel to the engine in neg G conditions. A restrictor installed will stop the flooding, but will not stop intermittent fuel delivery to the engine causing stuttering/misfiring.

Updraft, downdraft or side draft carburetor doesn't change a thing as long as it was a float type carburetor.

On the early Merlin a compromise by Miss Shilling "orfice or restrictor plate" enabled a short period (a few seconds) of neg G, then sputtering started and took Approx. 5-10 seconds to get full power back once at positive g. Only the Pressure Carburetor or Fuel Injection solved this problem of Neg g's.

<S>


Last edited by grumpy on Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:37 pm 
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http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php ... 4#msg43074

SAKAE 12 engine schematic and photos.

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Akatombo | White 576 | Curtiss AVG
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:57 pm 
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Awesome find Sakai! Now to pour over it.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Thanks, Grump.

Years back, I somehow befriended via email Mr. David Aiken with the Pearl Harbor History Museum. Mr. Aiken has forward to me information on occasion and I happened to remember one particular email:

Quote:
Aloha All,

...

So a Japanese sensei selected several of the illustrations in a PDF file.
Here is attached a copy of operation manual of Nakajima Ha-25.

Original full copy can be obtained from Japan Center for Asian Historical
Records
http://www.jacar.go.jp/english/index.html
Reference Code: C01004945200

As you may know, Nakajima Sakae 11 and 12 are classified as Ha-25.


Now we just need our hiragana / katakana / kanji readers to translate those 184 files.

I truly believe the information we all seek is within these files.

More as I find it.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:07 am 
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Thank you Sakai-, sir :-)

Btw if anyone knows Japanese, check if these translations are correct. We'll probably find out sooner or later though :-).

Nominal Power: Meimoku Denryoku
Take-off Power: Ririku-ryoku


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:30 pm 
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OK Gents...

I have finally updated the 'Reference' section of our Tainan Kokutai forum.

Reference Sub-Forum on TainanKokutai.org

There are many PDFs and files that we've collected over the years. I hope there is something in there you would appreciate.

~S~

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:33 pm 
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And here is a schematic of the SAKAE21

Image

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Tainan Kokutai - 台南

Akatombo | White 576 | Curtiss AVG
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:50 am 
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Report from 2004 by Richard L. Dunn:

Zero Model 21: unraveling the performance data

https://www.warbirdforum.com/zerodunn.htm

_________________
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~Sakai - 坂井
daimyosakai@gmail.com
Tainan Kokutai - 台南

Akatombo | White 576 | Curtiss AVG
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:56 am 
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Location: Lae, 1942

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~Sakai - 坂井
daimyosakai@gmail.com
Tainan Kokutai - 台南

Akatombo | White 576 | Curtiss AVG
Image


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