I'm finding -since the recent update- that bombers can kill me at up to d12, but they are almost impossible to kill from a fighter. In fact, I suggest we go back in time and warn the Germans that there will be bombers accompanying the allied fighters!
I saw 4 190s (the A1 variant with 2x20) make multiple passes on a single b17, each scoring hits on every pass, without killing the buff. Meanwhile, the 50's on the b17 destroyed all but one of the 190s at ranges of up to d12 and speed over 400mph. The surviving 190 was mine, and I lost an aileron at d12. I survived because I can recognize futility when I see it.
Later, in a hawk 75, I put fully 2000 rounds of 30 cal (over half my ammo load- mostly hits) at d1.5- d2, and didn't kill it. I tried wing shots. I tried cockpit shots. I tried between the legs trick shots. I stood on my head. I sacrificed a sheep. No luck.
Tonight, all of that occurred again, AND dar stopped working. Prime and I both noticed that Gold fighters over 12 were invisible to dar- even tho' the field was clearly inside dar range from 11, even if its own dar was down.
I think that's just an internet or server foible, but combined with the ridiculous buff toughness, and being outnumbered by those fighters we couldn't see, it sucked all the fun out of the game.

Maybe we could get the bombers (and the c47!) dialed back a bit. There was NOT much armour on them, and thus there's no reason an armour piercing round wouldn't go through multiple areas and hit people in the cockpit. And what about oxygen tanks? one round into one of those tanks would destroy a buff. How about the bomb load? Wouldn't an explosive cannon round have a good chance of setting the bombs off? If you're going to make the tougher, then add in some realism in those areas.
I know the b17 was tough, but the luftwaffe had a word for an unescorted B17: Dinner.
I know it's a bit of a balancing act, and I don't want to see buffs become helpless victims. But at the very least, let's dial back the otto to something within the realm of possibility.
I'm done for this TOD, and maybe until the next version comes out in 2020. or 2030. Or in my dreams
finn

Too bad about your experience and frustration but I hope you won't take that long break, Mr. Finn. You are welcome to shoot down my bombers and C47... they are certainly tougher than before but still typically several cannon hits cause fatal damage and the reds have been killing me a lot.

otto settings have not been changed for a few years now. They do not open fire until approx. d 8 and the 50 cal ( all types) is programmed to disappear after d 10. Hits at d 12 indicates lag for sure.
I do know that the updates had some work done on the hitboxes, but no changes to any damage files. Robert can better explain what he did to the hitbox arrangments. I do understand that the fuselages take a lot more to damage.
Not sure if it was me last night, but I WAS flying some b 17 missions, and suffered a lot of damage to engines, fuel, rudders rons etc eventually proving fatal on a couple of missions. Shot down several guys also but, I am a good gunner and the attacks were pretty much from a low slow approach or even alt approach from dead 6's which is always a mistake. Still, I give myself good odds when attacked like that but good high fast passes with good gunnery seems to drop me pretty good but these just observations from flying several missions to see how they do.
I also will sometimes try to achieve a slight nose down attitude getting up to 300 mph perhaps or slower slightly, meaning the rate of closure from a 6 attack is slow and straight giving myself a good gunnery solution from the tail or belly.
(shrugs) dunno, still trying em out, jury's still out on wether or not any work to the plane damage file needs to take place in view of changes to hitbox arangment.
Like to get my head wrapped around Roberts changes better before considering a change.

Finn have you tested your connection for jitter? If not try these 2. If more than 2 then you're going to have issues and of course of the other players connect has over 2, then it's just a fooked.

https://www.megapath.com/speedtestplus/

http://www.dslreports.com/pingtest

megapath shows 50ms time, zero jitter.
Apparently, it ain't my connect.
finn

Megapath doesn't check our connection to the iEnt server right? This is what I get from their server in Seattle but my connex in WarBirds has hardly been "excellent" past couple of weeks... getting 1 ping pk way too often than usual.

Correct qwe. It doesn't check WB's server. Many years ago you could check your connection to the WB's servers, but that hasn't been possible for many years now.

If your at 105 latency that isn't good as all I've seen is you want under 30 for good game play on any game. FWIW

You should not be using WIFI to play. Only ethernet connection from your computer to your router. Then again if others are using WIFI, then they'll screw the pooch for gameplay for. You can be aiming where your opponent isn't. It's a tangled web when it comes to connection issues for sure!

Then of course I could be full of **** as I'm only regurgitating what I've read.

<S>s!
All planes in WB's have had their hitmaps corrected, so the hitboxes are now in the right place. They've also had their hitpoints tweaked based on the structure, materials and size of the plane etc, which is why players experience a difference in toughness for several of the bombers. The current B-17 is pretty much as tough as the old Lanc was pre hitpoint changes, so it can not soak many more bullets than the Lanc could. I do think I see the issue though. While the B-17 is just as tough as the old Lanc, the B-17 has much better .50 cal defensive guns. As such the B-17 is much harder to kill since it bites back harder and even has a ball turret. Like an upgraded version of the old Lanc. This is most likely the problem, and I'll bring it up with the FM Team if we should dial all bombers hitpoints down by 10-20 percent. This will affect all bombers though since they all get their hitpoints set in a fair way based on size and structure, using the same mathematical formulas. As such the C-47 would also become a bit less tough. Do be aware though that the C-47 is not like a small He 111 just because it has two engines, the C-47 is nearly as large as the B-17 and as such should be quite tough if you go for the fuselage (always go for the engines or a pilot HO on bombers). I will also bring it up with the FM Team wether or not the C-47 was structurally weaker or had less armor for it's fuselage and wings than normal bombers, and if it as such should have a hitpoints penalty.





In all earnest though players also need to start learning how to attack a bomber. I see 90% are still going for a six o' clock attack even though this is the worst way to ever attack a buff. Like +VNSLP wrote, people who boom n zoom bombers from above and the sides, then reposition themselves for repeated boom n zooms are very hard for the defensive gunners to kill, whereas 90% of the players are easy to kill as they slowly creep up on the buffs six, just hoping they can outgun the tail and dorsal gunners. Also there is a reason why the Luftwaffe kept weighing down their fighters with heavy 30 mm and 4x 20 mm cannons. They didn't do that just for fun, as the heavy guns reduced performance, but rather since they needed that firepower to take buffs down. As such attacking buffs in a Spitfire or plane with only 2x 20 mm cannons is not the best choice, and there would be no tactical reason to take a fighter with heavy cannon armament if buffs were easy to kill by any plane.

I will get back to you all once the FM Team has reached a conclusion, and it might be good to try a 10-20% reduction in hitpoints for all bombers and see how it plays out compared to todays settings. I'm taking it quite slowly atm though since I'm on heavy morphine with a dislocated spine and a bad hernia in the lower vertebrae, so unfortunately I can't sit by the computer much for a few weeks. I should be nearly pain free within a few months though according to the doctors.


Cheers!
/Robert

Jesus Robert get better!!! Try some scotch with that morphine.

Hope you mend soon and well, Robert <S>

_________________


Reisen pilots have big hinomarus