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can you say 'bullshit"? I knew you can
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Author:  bollok [ Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can you say 'bullshit"? I knew you can

Whatever it is...

You certainly don't want a "one hit wonder cannon " against A/C (for dweebery purposes)

Weapons intended primarily for ground attack have reduced effectiveness against A/C to prevent this in warbirds.

Author:  grumpy [ Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can you say 'bullshit"? I knew you can

I agree bollok.

Author:  Finn [ Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: can you say 'bullshit"? I knew you can

bollok wrote:
Whatever it is...

You certainly don't want a "one hit wonder cannon " against A/C (for dweebery purposes)

Weapons intended primarily for ground attack have reduced effectiveness against A/C to prevent this in warbirds.


So then the 37mm on the aircobra should be an exception. It was primarily used (even in Russia) as an anti-aircraft weapon.

One hit from a aircobra's cannon really should down any fighter and severely damage any bomber.
This is balanced off in terms of game play by the very few rounds available. Most players will have a tough time getting more than one kill on a sortie with cannon.
finn

Author:  Finn [ Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: can you say 'bullshit"? I knew you can

Robert wrote:
Thank you Grumpy! You are a gold mine of information :-P.

Hmm, so if it required 1-2 hits to down an enemy fighter according to the Russian ww2 pilot, then maybe a damage value of 50, like all the other 37 mm cannons, would be more accurate. This since the M4 at 30 damage value currently requires 3 direct hits at the same integral part of the enemy plane to fully destroy it, and currently one will most probably need 6+ rounds hitting home since the hits will often be fairly spread out over a maneuvering enemy fighter.


50 would be a good compromise. There's no way it should have less power than the german mk108.
If I player can actually hit another plane with the 37mm,. he's earned a kill more than a guy that takes your elevator off at d8 with 20mm or even 50 cal.
The new flight models make the p39 a better airplane in the game- let's bring the guns up a bit to make it a viable option in the main arena.
finn

Author:  Finn [ Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: can you say 'bullshit"? I knew you can

still waiting for some improvement in the p39's cannon. At LEAST make it a bit more powerful than the similar Luftwaffe 30m.
One hit wonders on bombers aren't necessarily unrealistic, but it takes a lot more than 3 hits now, and you only have 30 rounds.
I'm not sure how this one hit wonder crap for the p39 or other aircraft is even an issue in a game that allows kills on aircraft from the main gun of a tank.
By the way, I have not been able to find a single example of that occurring for any tank on any side in WWII.
And how about the d8 hits from aircraft with 50s or 20mms on other planes? And a realistically powerful cannon for the P39 is somehow LESS realistic than that?
Really? I mean REALLY?
That's quite a sliding scale we have on the old realism gauge.

Author:  fencer [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can you say 'bullshit"? I knew you can

The 50 cal mg has an effective range of 1200, yes that's right, 1200 yards. It also had very little bullet drop at those ranges.
The Allied 20mm cannon with the 6 ft long barrels also had an effective range of about 1000 yards. As opposed to the German
20mm that had an open breech block, 3 ft long barrel with the resulting low velociticty shell and very short range short range.
So I don't see a problem with Allied 50 cals and 20mm hitting at d8. I do see a problem when the German ones do.

Fencer

Author:  bollok [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: can you say 'bullshit"? I knew you can

Hm. In real world combat conditions however...

Maximum effective airborne shooting range was only about 400 yards - simply because it was rather difficult to hit anything beyond that.
At 600 yards or more, you might be lucky to get a few pings and do minor damage.

If you browse the P51 or P47 encounter reports, you will see that the vast majority of successful gunnery took place between 50 yards and 350 yards

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ ... ports.html
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ ... ports.html

If you wanted to replicate in Warbirds

D1 - Close range (upto 199 yards)
D2 - Normal range (upto 299 yards)
D5 - Long Range (upto 599 yards)
D7 - Extreme Range (upto 799 yards)

Author:  grumpy [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: can you say 'bullshit"? I knew you can

^^^^

add in the cone of fire because of the effects of dispersion and barrel oscillation. In many cases it's much better to have many projectiles hitting a lighter built fighter (more chances for a hit) than few with more explosive, but less chance to hit.

Author:  olddog [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: can you say 'bullshit"? I knew you can

Grumpy is pretty much right.

Being on the beta team at the time... the ammo modeling went well HE rounds were actually much more effective than MG rounds for the first time.

"cough" Stirred up the big squads that flew AC that didn't have anything but mg rounds, much angst occurred, then threats, then cave in then roll back.

Partially because of DM not being as RL as it could be.

Author:  +VNSLP [ Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: can you say 'bullshit"? I knew you can

Dave
Tanks hitting aircraft has been fixed for close to 3 years now, they dont anymore. Projectile wieght was 1 lb instead of 10 lb giving it EXTREMLY long range with no drop....but it been fixed for a loooong time.
We tried a proper dispersion on a mustang 1 once ...riots in the streets.......we tried a gun recoil mucho higher than the one we got now...it actually dropped your nose down when you opened up....again...riots in the streets.....
ain't nobody EVER happy bout nothing......:)

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