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Spit VC with 4x20
http://bhlanding.ient.com/warbirdsforum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=474		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Finn [ Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Spit VC with 4x20
The spit Vc rolled out in fairly large numbers with 4x20mm. Wartime testing suggested that there was very little performance difference between that and the two x20 4x303 version. However, 2 of the 20mm were sometimes removed to increase performance slightly- I THINK- providing they were not replaced by 4x303 and all the ammo for them!
I'd love to see a SPIT V with 4 20mm, or the option of having only 2x20mm with no rifle caliber guns.
I can't remember the exact reasoning behind not including this variant- but I think it was people thought it would make the spit too good. I can understand that- but if that's the policy, then imagine the reaction if the most capable variants of the other planes in the game were disallowed?
finn
Author:  Robert [ Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spit VC with 4x20
Interesting. I'll bring it up with the FM team and do some research. It would be quite easy to add the 4x 20 mm option to the Spitfire Vc for the next update.

<S>
/Robert
Author:  -jabo- [ Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spit VC with 4x20
I think the only spits photos you will see with four 20mm in the E wing are those that were used to fly to Malta. They put the extra cannon in so they could be taken out and used on other planes on the beleaguered island. I think the RAF would have loved to put 4x20mm on the spit variants earlier on but it was just not capable enough until the Griffon marks came along with more power.
Author:  grumpy [ Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spit VC with 4x20
Jabo is 99% correct. It's a C wing on Spit V's. ;)
Author:  fencer [ Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spit VC with 4x20
Something else for the FM group to think about. The description of the USA G-suit.
Since the the RAF and the USA had the G-suit from mid 1944 on, when will this
be reflected in Warbirds flight data for late model RAF and USA aircraft? P-47D 25s
P-51D 25s P-38Ls all had the G-suit system installed in them during production.
F6F-5s and F4U 4s also had the system installed although the USN and USMC called
them Z-suits. F4U 1Ds had the system retrofitted by late 1944. Spitfire XIVs and
late model Spitfire IX also has G-suit systems installed.

Fencer
Author:  Robert [ Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spit VC with 4x20
Setting the pilot G-tolerance per plane would be interesting. The Bf 109 for example had a back-leaning pilot seat which allowed the German pilots to pull more G's than English pilots could do in their upright pilot seats. This would however have to first be made available by a code rewrite by Ient. I can always suggest it to them and see if it's possible to do.

Regarding the Spit Vc 4x 20 mm the research I've been presented by the FM Team suggests that this was not a common setup, used for transporting extra cannons to Malta and was soon abandoned for the Spitfire. Who knows why, but maybe the Spitfire wing being super thin by ww2 standards might have something to do with it not working out for the Spitfire while the Hurricane had no problems fielding 4x 20 mm. The Spitfire had a wing root/tip thickness of only 13%/9% compared to the Hurricane at 19%/12.2%. It seems though that the Spit Vc should not have the 4x 20 mm as a selectable loadout.


<S>
/Robert
Author:  fencer [ Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spit VC with 4x20
The back leaning seat for Me 109 was not very effective. In order to have any effect on G forces
the seat had to be leaned back to 65 degrees. Anything less then that has no effect. The Nazi
solution to the G problem was to install a metal bar just above the rudder pedals. The pilot put his
feet up on the bar and this would raise his legs up a little bit and slow the blood flow to his legs
and feet. And of course, it means that he couldn't use his rudder during high Gs. It raised the G
force a Nazi pilot could take up very little, maybe up to 6 gs. The Allied G-suit raised the G force
limit to about 6.75 gs and the pilot cold retain control of all the flight control systems.

Fencer
Author:  -sakai [ Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spit VC with 4x20
Any authentic links with these data / factual points?
Author:  grumpy [ Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spit VC with 4x20
Spit rudder pedals. Notice the two positions the feet can have. High and low.

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/07/anatomy ... static_001

Maybe .5G added to blackout resistance.

109 - Black 6 rudder pedals

http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/walkaroun ... .pedal.jpg
Author:  Finn [ Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spit VC with 4x20
-jabo- wrote:
I think the only spits photos you will see with four 20mm in the E wing are those that were used to fly to Malta. They put the extra cannon in so they could be taken out and used on other planes on the beleaguered island. I think the RAF would have loved to put 4x20mm on the spit variants earlier on but it was just not capable enough until the Griffon marks came along with more power.

Actually, the C wing could handle 4x20mm or 2x20mm plus 4x303 or just 2x20mm.
The problem was not with the spitfire but rather with the cannon, which tended to jam-especially in the dust of North Africa and Malta. So the 303s were kept in the wing to insure it would always have some firepower.There would not be much difference between the weight of 4x 20 and 2x20 plus 4x303. I read a report (and will try to find a link for it) that showed no difference in performance. The dust of N Africa required huge Voke air filters and these impacted performance.
It would be interesting to have all 3 variants available- but failing that, a version with 2x20 only would be a fun ride for the more skilled spit drivers.
Finn
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