Well side balance is just a symptom of what's the problem. Here's the problem. NOE/Low level bombers/figher-bombers repeatedly taking down some targets, getting killed, re-upping to do the same thing over and over and over until a base is closed. Some people are really good at training the newer guys real well that way to play. Of course there's always a few fighters 20-25k to dive on anyone trying to stop the NOE/low level jabocide/bombacide people. Of course that's always going on even when it's 2 to 1 odds or better. So people have left the game through the past 10 years of such play.

Logged on tonight at 10:30 PM and it was 10 to 6, then 20 min it was 11 to 5, another 30-35 min it was 12 to 4, then when I left (12;35 AM) the odds were 13 to 4 and that's when I said good night. Anyone could've changed sides from the time I logged on until I logged off. Did 3-4 change sides? How about 1 or 2? Yea that's rich isn't it.

You don't need a new squad to change sides. You just need:

1. - Stop the stupid NOE/Low level stuff when it's 2 to 1 odds or preferably stop it all together.
2. - Have the guts to change sides when it's that lopsided.

IMHO

Grumpy,
I agree with a lot of what you say. However, it's tough to get guys to change when it means abandoning their squaddies. Also, the argument always seems to be "well, look how much of the map the 'other' side took when they had numbers during the 'day' or 'night'."
When I used to regularly change sides for numbers, the side I went to thought I was a 'spy', and the side I left berated me as a traitor.
Hence my decision to simply switch sides on a TOD basis and let the chips fall where they may. I will be fully committed to whatever side I choose for each TOD.
If we REALLY want to solve this problem the game itself must force equal sides. I'm not sure many folks would like that. I'd be fine with it, but there is a lot of hate in the game and a lot of guys will simply not play on the same side as 'squad x' or 'player y'.
cheers
finn

I hear you Finn and understand what your saying.

I was hoping to see you address game play as that's the real issue why the number of players is at such a low level. As long as the game play stays status quote, then expect the numbers you see will stay the same or go even lower.

I had a fun time in the DOA Special scenario Sunday night. Was a nice change of pace until....the NOE bomber guys showed up even in there.

Cheers Mate

DOA event was fun last night. All due respect Grumpy, the event mission for axis was to bomb Paris.
And seeing how there was in flight dar set up (which wasn't available in WWI), it was suicide for guys to up in the Gotha in a very slow climb just to get bounced every time before they could even get up to 1000 ft.

_________________
Swanee - NWO / AE

---------------------------------------------------------
There are 2 kinds of people in this world...
Fighter pilots – and those that wish they were.

Hey Grumpy!
I think a lot of the game play issues arise out of game design.
IF the game rewards people for dweebish behaviours, dweebish is what you'll get.
I think if you want to stop the bomb, die, rinse repeat crap, the only way to do it is to invoke a larger penalty for getting killed/captured on the mission. The same goes for the players defending who come up over and over instantly in planes or GV's.
IF... the game put you one field further from your target every time you died, players would work harder at surviving.
IF... the game awarded weighted points for successive successful missions (not just a take off and landing) players would work harder at flying realistically.
IF... you have proper dispersion modelled in gunnery, headon shots and long range shots become much more problematic.
IF... you model gun recoil properly and combine it with the above... no more hanging on props and blazing away at d6 or more and getting hits.
IF... you make every ditch in a flight damaged airplane a victory for the player who inflicted the damage, but NOT a death or streak ending event for the loser... more sportsman like behaviour will likely occur. (e.g. allowing a plane you set on fire to ditch because you know the game will award you a kill instead of giving him a bogus free pass just because he's an inch closer to his house than yours.
IF...GV's couldn't see aircraft icons, the playing field would be leveled a bit. as it is, for me, GV's are invisible unless they are shooting at me.
IF... the game awarded more points to players on the outnumbered side (e.g. 2-1 odds, double the points... 3-1.. triple etc.) players might be more willing to switch sides for balance.
IF... there was no channel 100, there'd be no stupid bickering and whining between the sides.

As per the above, I think it's the game that dictates at least some of the more annoying behaviours in the game. Fix the game design, ameliorate (though probably not eliminate completely, these behaviours. You'll never get a completely assh*le free game, but intelligent game design can sure help. There are lots of other changes that would help improve the game itself, but that's another thread. (Although it may be too late, because this one has already been hijacked a bit:

cheers!
finn

There is/ was a new score system Chunky and I worked over that added a bonus for rtb'in and landing. Score was set for whick KIND of airplane you shot down.....ranks started at the enlisted level and went all way up to General status but the catch was/ is....everyone had to start over with zero......every good idea has been nixed by the "status Quo", and frankly , I gave up trying to improve things a long time ago because of it, sorry.

Hm.. You'd think there'd be a way to keep the rank you have but zero out the score.
Actually, the ideal thing would be to zero the score each tour of duty and make rank by score per TOD.
Let people keep the highest rank they earn in a TOD, but reset the score each time. That would be a great way for players to track progress and gain rank more quickly.
IF current players cannot be 'grandfathered' in, most would quickly earn that back, given their proven skill sets.
Right now, it can take years of play to get to Captain, which is a bit ridiculous. The current system is a bit of a joke really. Lots of guys made general in the old ETO arena bombing villages versus no opposition. It was possible to get over 10000 points per bomber sortie back then with a b24. much less a lanc. Remember that back then ground labels were visible from miles up. Combine that with a laser guided norden sight, and a night of bombing posts and villages could add up to a pile of points.

Anyhow, that's my suggestion for getting a new score system in place! Run that up the flagpole and see who salutes!
finn

So far my grand experiment has been fun but difficult. I feel a bit like the maytag man at times, flying pretty much alone against pretty stiff odds.
It will make me a better player in the long run I think, but it's a bit lonely. It's also not easy shooting down some of my favorite people in the game. I don't mind being shot down by them quite so much- but I do try to avoid it.
I hope that over time, both sides will accept and respect my decision to alternate 'team's each TOD.
So far... not so much. I'll keep at it because I believe it's the right thing to do.
And I do like the challenge.

I am always on the country's IEN TS channel, all are welcome to join me.

Been a 1stLt for ever...and probably will never be able to accumulate the 800k+ for Captain.

_________________
~S~
~Sakai - 坂井
daimyosakai@gmail.com
Tainan Kokutai - 台南

Akatombo | White 576 | Curtiss AVG

That's an issue; a very good player stuck because the score system reflects something other than actual skill.
Cheers Sakai.

finn